A quick way to describe Billy's music (to the inexperienced) is how he and his bands get their sound(s). Hear's a quote fromt he back of Thee Mighty Caesars 1990 album Surely They Were The Sons Of God: "It takes UNDER 2 DAYS and UNDER $400 to record an album...we were brought up in PUNK ROCK, THAT's where our rock and roll come from..."
During the first of two phone interviews (the first I didn't record, merely took notes), Billy gave me his partial ist of current and most recent projects and I made a comment on how busy he is, almost as busy as he was in 1987 when he put out 14 (!) albums out. A loose quote of his response was "I like projects, when I was a little kid I used to make up games for the other kids to play. I would be a captain in the army or something, the other kids would get pissed off. I would say something like "Go make up your own game.
The next thing Billy talked about during the first interview, was the English period of Jimi Hendrix. "Check out the live footage of Jimi, he'll be mid-song trying to get his guitar in tune and he can't get in tune so he goes I'll just play the thing behind me head, he's like a big kid." He didn't even go into Jimi's technical skill, he seemed to be more interested in Jimi's ability to be able to pullof a good song/sound with out worrying about the (technical) details.
Billy was very amiable, patient (he let me take my foot out of my mouth, virtually unscathed, a few times), helpful, informative and funny. I felt a little like a twelve year old kid talking with Neal Armstrong around '69/'70. I found talking with him the same way I find his music, fun and (for lack of a better word) inspring, I hope you do too. Keith Aderholdt.
Billy Childish: [answering machine]
Da Tada Da! Information! Communication! Information! This is Billy, Kira and Jack's answerphone. [He picks up.] Hold on just a second. Yeah, I'm here.
F: Um, I just wanted to iron out a few details. It's The English Cock that you're having translated into German?
BC:That's the working title of a new selection of poetry I'm working on. And "Deer Stalking Men" is The Headcoates Sect with Keith Grum and Don Crane, The DownLiners Sect together. Do you know them?
F: I know Thee Headcoates, but The Down Liners sect, you're working with them?
BC: Yeah, they're sort of like a 60's sort of R & B combo, sort of like the most underground British R & B group from that period, they're sort of pre Stones. I think The Kinks supported them once.
F: That sounds great, who's putting that out?
BC: That's on Hangman's Daughter.
F: I wanted to ask about you're novel. What it's about?
BC: That just covers my life from when I can remember until I was 24 but it doesn't cover any group stuff that's going to be in something else.
F: Just out of curiousity, who was the fine citizen on the cover of 50 Albums Great.
BC: That was me
F: Was that your home, the little van in the background? [The vehicle in the photo reminded me of the covet to Flipper's Gone Fishin' album, which features a cut-out of the band van that Ted Falconi was also living in at the time]
BC: No, No, that's the old Milkshakes bus.
F:That's great [I'm laughing, and simultaneously wondering if he thinks I'm making fun of him] I love that suit, what's it made of
BC: That's just an old school blazer and a pair of trousers painted.
F: What year was that?
BC: I'm not sure, but the clothes were stuff I made in'77. The photograph is quite a bit later I think.
Note: Tbe last time spoke with Billy (I bungled most of the interview) one of things we talked about was bands he liked from around '77 he mentioned, The Clash, Richard Hell, The Damned, The Ramones, Alternative Television, The Down Liners Sect and Johnny Moped.
F: We were talking about early bands you were into. What was your take on The Stooges and Iggy?
BC: I didn't hear the Stooges until a few years ago.
F: Wow, what did you think when you did hear them?
BC: I thought they were slow and dreary.
F: You can't imagine him on stage gouging himself with a bottle or anything.
BC: Well,I can imagine it. I was sort of like it's quite rockish for me and I find Sex Pistols a bit rockish as well...it's like it's not mv sort of . . never really been that interested, like I heard a little bit of MC5 in 1980 or so, I've never really listened to them. I don't collect records you see. I'm not a fan. Mainly I heard English punk rock, then apart from that, Richard
Hell [The Pop Rivits used to cover Love Comes in Spurts] and The Ramones. I really like both bands '77 stuff. Actually, the Iggy Pop stuff I've heard that I liked is the album David Bowie produced [Lust For Life], I like "The Passenger" and what are probably the other popular songs. I have heard an album Other Voices, which is The Doors just after the Doors broke up (Jim Morrison had left the band they do "Tightrope Ride" which is I think "The Passenger" is a rip off of.
F: Really, I had no idea?
BC: Yeah it goes "We're on a tightrope ride, nobody by your side" and it's exactly the same. Obviously it almost fits.
F: Lyrics,music or both?
BC: Both. Well put in "We're on a tightrope ride" instead of "I am the Passenger". I heard it about the same period, about 77, Other Voices I think it's called I just heard it once but it's no big deal, like you've probably heard the song "Beat Generation." Rod Mckuen did it back in the '50's. "Blank Generation" is still a good song. "I helong to the beat generation" I said it to Hell - I did a reiding with him - I said "I heard that song you got 'Blank Generation' from and he said: "Where the hell did you hear that?" It's amusing you see, everyone thinks people are being geniuses and amasinginly creative when most of us are just ripping each other off. The thing is, the more original you are it just means the better you mask where you get your influences from. I read an interview with Kurt Cobain that said exactly the same thing.
F: I often hear your music compared to early Kinks.
BC: I think The(e) Milkshakes were very interested in early Kinks and oh yeah, suppose we do the chord thing. I suppose it's just a matter of how much you speed something up and change it around. The Ramones do "Louie Louie" all of the time, they don't bother with it, they just do
"Louie Louie' flat out without the sort of stuttering rhythm don't they. It's three chord punk rock, it's bound to sound like hell of a lot of things [he bursts out laughing]
F: This is one thing I really wanted to get down, what you had to say about musicians and them not being good for anything. ("what good has muician ever done anyone?") and you cited the early Stones and Beatles. What was your take on that?
BC: [flatly] Well,It was just that these groups didn't have musicians in them. I mean I suppose there was a musician element in them, but not much. So you've got Harrison who can play guitar and I suppose you've got . . is it Brian Jones or Keith that plays guitar? You know, so you've got a little bit going on but it doesn't mire the thing. I mean you've got a drummer who's adequate - both parties adequate - a singer who's near adequate - I'm talking about The Stones.
F: No, there's no Howlin' Wolf in any of that.
BC: Then again Howlin' Wolf. The best Howlin' Wolf doesn't need musicians, it' just the singer. Well look, John Lee Hooker is a great example. Good, early John Lee Hooker - who needs a fuckin'
musician? You're putting in two or three simple elements together until you get musicians - I'm talking about ego/musicians once they get involved in something the whole thing gets fucked up because they're not prepared to do the minimum to allow the song to be. They don't have the vision of working as group to make something. Three people put three simple things in you get a great thing out. [With musicians] you get one person there sort of like wanking,
F: "The Haircut agenda" that was another one I liked; That was about bands that seem to be more interested in their haircuts than sound they might come up with?
BC: Yeah, this is generally true, you can be interested in both, but it's best to be more interested in the sound than the haircut. Lot's of groups are more interested in their haircuts than their sound. Also of course, the same could he said of the majority of the people that go along to watch it.I mean if you havn't got the present haircut, then you're not interesting. I mean this is a generalization but it does fit the bill.
F: It reinforces the idea that you're supposed to look a certain way.
BC: It's like Johnny, my bass player today was talking about The Ramones. So many people are into that stuff never notice how really well done the songs are, what a really brilliant group they are, like their early stuff and how it all fits together and having that really brilliant singer. And such pretty melodies, sort of like The Beach Boys done good. I hate The Beach Boys actually, but [the Ramones are] The Beach Boys done good. Yeah, I think a lot of the people that are into it are more interested in the haircuts.
F: Do, you think, people in England generally know, more about the history of American music than we do? I mean you have (over there) a record label devoted entirely to California garage/surf bands of the 60's.
BC: No, not in my experience. You may have some sad people that do that sort of thing. My experience has been that apart from a very few people over here alot of people don't understand what punk rock is or what punk rock in the 60's was or anything. They think (Ihe)Sonics means
Sonic Youth, if they know that much. No, I don't find that at all, you do get collectors and people that are into it for sure. I don't know much about that stuff, just hits and pieces I pick up and sort of get forced down my throat. Like I said, I haven't listened to the Back From the Grave [A Crypt records compilation of 60's punk] shit, Tim [Warren, at Crypt Records] gave me years and years ago. I occasionally do. It's not because I don't like it, it's because I don't
listen to music much.
F: You had Tom Waits under your skin last week.
BC: No, not neally,it's just I'd heard him at the cinema in a film I find it bewildering, amusing or confusing (depending on what state I,m in) how people think he's the real thing when its so obviously theater. I'm interested in finding out how his sounds are done It's really down to performance and a couple of mic's, you know. I've listened to a couple of things and heard this great technique where they've put these flat mic's on the wall to to give the pickup this big reverb in the room and shit like this, which is sort of like a pretty rudimentary way of understanding why Howlin wolf is fucking brilliant. [Waits is]not rudimentary but pursues an idiotic way of getting to it. I mean Captain Beafheart, who did'nt bother with the theatrics or quite go down the same ethnic route Tom Waits has, I think, gets a lot nearer to the spirit of the material. It's odd, you hear Tom Waits but you don't hear Howling Wolf or Beafheart or Screaming Jay as much. These things do hecome popular and get rehashed which is, I suppose, not too harmfull. The problem is it just ends up advertising, fucking American beer which everyone knows is piss anyway. Over here we have John Lee Hooker and bloody Howlin' Wolf advertising heer and its sort of like they get the beer advert or the Levis fucking advert. It's a shame isn't it, in some ways, but I suppose at least it stops all the money from going to Tom Waits.
F: Over here I suppase we don't have enough people who know who John Lee Hooker and Tom Waits are.
BC: It's a real middle class thing, Tom Waits, it's sort of like people who want to be a bit weird, "Oh yes, Tom Waits absolutely, very ethnic, isn't he? Very rough edges, yes I'm really quite into that!" People like it because they think it makes them interesting. Especially over here. It's really sort of like yuppie music, I call it. He's the yuppie's Howlin' Wolf or the yuppie Beefheart
F: He just played here and I think the cheap tickets were $35 and the show sold out in 20 minutes. [actually,it was the first day and I neglected to mention it was a fundraiser for his friend.].
BC: Well good for him. I suppose he may as well coin in on it while he's got it going. Get the money while he can. It's not really his fault people don't understand fuck all. I'm sure we share very much the same tastes in things but for some reason it's got to be dressed up a little bit.
Everyone's always dressing everything up, it's never good enough how it is. Most people say they like something, you listen to it, and you can't urderstand what they mean. It sounds more like Dire Straits or something. It seems that they don't really have any ears.
F: Would you say that Thee Caesars are over now?
BC: Well we did a single on Sympathy that just came out and we did a gig end of last year in London but we aren't doing much on the whole. We were really good and we weren't bad when we played again. It's just a bit pointless really, going back to stuff. Because it's never really going to be the same, it's just sort of like a nostalgic evening and you don't try and do it from a nostalgic point of view.
F: There were other bands that you gave bad reviews I would like to get in print. Nirvana you said were worse than The Status Quo?
BC: Well all of that stuff sounds a bit to me like that return to the early 70's stuff, which we were reacting against, its just now I find out they call that punk rock and I thought it was rock. Ninrana for me is rock music, which is fine you know, but it's more to do with MTV and stadiums. I'm sure when it started it wasn't. I think they played with us in London once, I'm
not sure. I think they were on the bill with us and Mudhoney or something. Something like that is P.A.music. We don't use P.A.'s. We don't use much stage mixing. Not interested. Well generally not interested.
F: The industry, that was something we talked about last week. You said you kneew some A and R men at Sub Pop, Reprise and Warner's. You said you turned down Sub Pop.
BC: Dave (?), and Sub Pop Dave Rosencimtz (?) , they're so stingy. I'm not sure what their motivation is. It has something to do with cowardice. People make the right noises but you don't see much action. It's like most people, the mortgage comes first but integrity comes like 8th or 10th. you know, sign up some crappy thing that's going nowhere beause it sounds like they're making the right noises.
F: They'll put a budget that would last you 10 years into one band that has no future.
BC: Well I'm told by Dave that there's no way our music would be played on the radio because it's not of a technical quality, because it's not recorded in big overdub studios and that. It probably fits in with that thing about Tom Waits. It's got pops all over it like its sort of ramshackle but its actually engineered stuff. It's the Walt Disney version of Howling Wolf.
F: You said - of the same thing about Nick Cave.
BC: Nick Cave is like bad fat Jim Morrison outtakes. It's vaguely theatrical and meant to be ever so dark and scary and dangerous, like some sort of vampire thing. You know like saying the "F" word. Very risky. I suppose that's for people who want to be subversive and dangerous. I don't know what the fuck it's meant to be. I saw him on television and I could tell he didn't believe what he was doing any more than I did. You can't knock him he's just sort of earning a living I suppose. I saw Iggy Pop on the same show and he slightly believed what he was doing but he wasn't
really into the sound, he was interested in his tits and making sure they were seen. That gives him one advantage. This is my exposure to modern music, this live program on television. I haven't got a t.v. so I was around someone's house. They had Mr. Cave, I was amazed he can't sing. He was singing with this woman P.J. Harvey. She can sing. She has a very melodious
voice which was nice because it showed up Nick Cave really well, that he couldn't sing at all and nobody seemed to mind. He's meant to be a good singer and I was really surprised that he can't even do thaL I can sing as badly as he can and I'm not called a genius. They had this group Pulp on there, this sort of sub David Bowie 1972. You know this group called Pulp?
F: There's a real band called Pulp? B.C.: Yeah, they're one of the biggest groups in England at the moment. They've got this bloke Jarvis Caca and it's sort of sub '72 David Bowie sort of stuff. He's incapable of looking anybody in the eye while he's singing as well. They actually do sort of succeed in what they're trying to do , which is the sub David Bowie '72. Why anyone would want to I don't know. They manage to do it and young girls like them and people going through midlife crisis. They had [footage of] Jimi Hendrix on this program as well and he was the only one who seemed to enjoy playing music it all and be interested in it and at the same time not take it all seriously. He was quite good, I really liked that bit. Then they had Lenny Kravitz on doing his acoustic bit I don't think we should honor him by passing any comment at all. Lenny Kravitz, it goes without saying. It was extremely sad.
F: I wonder if what peple want is the musical version of television? Not the band but the medium.
BC: They want all orifices satisfied at once. It doesn't matter how it's being done or what quality it is as long as they're being Rogered [English slang for fucked] So the only answer is to do it yourself.
F: Is there anything else you'd like to add?
BC: As far as I'm concerned it's not sort of a bitter point of view I've got, it's more sort of realistic. I'm not angry about any of it being like that,, I just sort of think it's like that. I'm sure it was equally as bad having to watch the Beatles and Rolling Stones getting dressed up, you know, I don't think it's a new occurence it's maybe just a little bit more obvious. It's a bit like newspapers, you know, people have always been killing each other but maybe it wasn't reported as quickly and there wasn't the full color photos. So the fact that alot of this stuff is ridded with crap and corruption isn't a great new occurence, it's just that we've got the full color photos and you can see it very easily every day. Maybe that's why most people don't notice.
F: They're numb to it.
BC: Of course, it's also not particularly important, which might be another issue, that it doesn't really matter.